When Sports Become Pop Culture

An interview with 'Mind Game' author Julie Kliegman on the crossovers between sports and culture, the toll both take on participants' mental health, and how psychedelics could save them both.

Sports are pop culture, and not just when Taylor is dating Travis, or even when Ice Cube is offering women’s college basketball phenomenon Caitlin Clark a sweet deal to play in his basketball league. As is evident as March Madness takes over all of our feeds, sports give us public heroes and villains, inspiration and political action, storylines and outrages. Sports and entertainment also share a very dark side: Both put their stars through such vigorous trials that they take a particularly heavy toll on those stars’ mental health. How can we feel okay about looking to these people for our entertainment when their suffering is so severe?

I talked to Julie Kliegman, the author of the terrific new book Mind Game: An Inside Look at the Mental Health Playbook of Elite Athletes, to discuss this and more, including the ways that both pop culture and sports bring meaning to fans’ lives, how figures from both worlds have become major advocates for psychedelic use for mental health, and the actions that sports leagues must take to help protect players. (Full disclosure: I helped edit Julie’s book. Our interview has been edited for clarity and length.)

JKA: People who read my newsletter are very into pop culture, but there’s a chance they’re thinking, “sports are for dumb jocks.” But certainly both sports and pop culture have their share of detractors who dismiss them as stupid and meaningless. So my first question is: How are sports pop culture?

JK: Well, that's a great question because you're acknowledging that they are pop culture. I mean, we have these celebrity figures that we like to watch on TV and in person, it's already kind of the same thing, and sports are so ubiquitous in society. But if you don't personally like to interact with them, you have friends who do. Or you might've played sports when you were younger. You might have kids who play sports. So they really touch all of our lives in the same way that pop culture does.

JKA: And it's also about people bringing meaning to something that could be seen as meaningless. There are people who will say, for instance, who cares who wins the stupid game? Why does that matter? Why do you think sports actually do matter?

JK: I think sports are kind of an escape valve for people in the same way that reading fantasy novels is. Why is it important whether this character lives or dies? It's not, but it also really is for a lot of people, and I think that's okay. I think we can stop questioning whether sports matter and just accept that they do. And also that's to say nothing of the social justice issues that sports bring up, racial justice, gender equity, things like that.

JKA: The ultimate sports/pop culture crossover is, of course, the Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce phenomenon. What do you make of the excitement over that, as well as the backlash?

JK: I kind of think it's great. This famous person in the world of sports is immediately dwarfed by this famous person in the world, and I think that's incredible, and I hope that put a lot of things into perspective for NFL fans who were like, “Travis was already famous.” I mean, not anywhere near her level. I think the backlash is kind of silly. The Chiefs, I think, proved they weren't distracted by the Taylor stuff because they literally won the Super Bowl.

They’ve just built this incredible dynasty. And I don't think Taylor is Yoko Ono-ing that. I have seen that comparison, and I'm like, first of all, I think you need to do more research into Yoko Ono, but also into Taylor Swift.

JKA: Another exciting recent sports narrative is Caitlin Clark. Why do you think she is breaking through?

JK: I think there are a few things. One is she's legitimately an incredible shooter. She'll shoot from half court and make it, which is not something many people can do, even in the pros, at least not consistently in game action. Also, she's a great heel. It’s fun to hate on her. And she knows that and plays into it and is okay with it.

JKA: Why do you think people like to hate her?

JK: Just because she's kind of arrogant, frankly, but it's earned arrogance. I think it's mostly in a playful way and not problematic.

JKA: While I was reading your book, I started to think, oh, this isn't that different from people in entertainment, the mental stuff. It's just, I guess there's just a major conversation to be had about the mental health of the people we look to for entertainment, which includes athletes. So how do we reconcile that? Do you think we can still enjoy this stuff while knowing what it does to these people?

JK: I think that's a really hard question. I've reckoned with that with individual sports. I don't watch football anymore. I used to love it growing up, and I just can't deal with the head injuries, with all the domestic violence stuff, and how the league does or doesn't handle it. So I personally have made that choice about one sport, but I think on the whole, it's like you can watch it as long as you have a certain level of respect for these people as people and not just as athletes who are there to shoot balls through hoops or whatever.

JKA: What was your biggest takeaway from your research about athletes and mental health?

JK: This book wasn't any one particular story, but it was the breadth of all these stories and how everyone has something to say about it. Maybe that's partially because we're in a COVID-19 world where so many more people have been affected with mental illness. So many more people have been hit by grief. It’s really exacerbating the issue, and we've seen studies that show that. This really does touch everyone.

JKA: Is there anything the NFL could do to win you back? Is there anything that you would like to see them do that would make you feel okay about this?

JK: I definitely think they could take more responsibility for the injury aspect. That would go a long way, in my opinion, because I think they're still trying to see loopholes where they can in giving players the support they need and acknowledging their own role in these players’ concussions and their livelihoods. I don't know if they can win me back, but I'm willing to let them try.

I do think the solution at the end of the day is to tell people to stop playing football or at least tackle football. Kids and also women, which is interesting because if we're willing to let men kill their bodies, why shouldn't we let women do it too? Fair is fair if we're just going to murder everyone. So I have mixed feelings about flag football for adults and gender wise. But yeah, I think overall it's great to be getting kids into flag.

JKA: Can you imagine a world where we would watch flag football?

JK: I mean, we watch all sorts of things. People watch pickleball and TV now. People watch XFL and all these other football leagues. So I think any sport can take off.

JKA: Why do you think we need to watch men tackle each other in order to have fun?

JK: I think it has to do with, oh, a man has to be mentally and physically tough, and that's what we admire about sports. But there's actually so much more that we can admire about sports, including the vulnerability of these people.

JKA: What would you like to see change in sports overall that could make us feel a little better about what these people are going through?

JK: Well, I would like to see college athletes paid. I think that's not an uncommon wish at this point, but I think we need to respect the mental and physical toll that they take for their, let's face it, employers and the promotion they do. I think they need to be given resources beyond just, like, oh, here's a doctor here and there. They need to be given money for this. And then on the pro level, I think we just need to keep funneling money and resources to athletes. We need to support them negotiating strong collective bargaining agreements when they come up. I mean, sports is really a labor issue at the end of the day.

JKA: And what do you think about just giving them mental health resources as well?

JK: Yeah, they need more of that. They also need more of it available outside their team. So, for example, if a player is to see a therapist or a psychiatrist, they should have the option to go outside their team and be reimbursed for that.

JKA: Is the concern just that then the team has essentially access to super personal information and the fact that they're struggling?

JK: It's always the case that the psychologist or psychiatrist will say, well, of course it's all confidential, but as a player, it's really hard to trust that. And I think that's reasonable. I think it’s a huge fear of athletes is they'll be seen going in there. They'll be benched, they'll be traded. Rumors will start spreading.

JKA: I do want to talk about athletes and mental health and psychedelics. What did you learn about this new frontier in your research?

JK: I think the most important thing to stress is that it still is very new. There's a lot we don't know about psychedelics, especially in elite athlete populations because they're understandably very particular about what they put into their bodies. So there haven't really been any trials specific to the elite athlete population. But we do know that athletes are using psychedelics. I've been told by NFL players that they get used in the off season a lot, and they're not necessarily getting used in mental health settings. They might be getting used in another country or more ceremonial format.

But I think there potentially is a lot to be gained from letting athletes use psilocybin, for example, which has been indicated to have helpful effects on something like PTSD, which I'm sure is not the most uncommon among football players, for example, or other athletes just knowing their childhood upbringing often and knowing the experiences they face in the leagues. So yeah, there's a lot of room for experimentation there. It's hard to say anything definitive, but Aaron Rogers coming forward about using ayahuasca and stuff like that is a little bit of a red herring almost. It makes us laugh and it doesn't really make us consider seriously the possibility of mental health and psychedelics and sports, but I guess it's better than him not saying anything.

JKA: You mentioned PTSD. Are there any other ways that you found that psychedelics are helping athletes?

JK: Ketamine is obviously supposed to be helpful for depression. And I talked to Kenny Stills, the retired NFL player, about that. So I think those are two of the big ones. I've never taken psychedelics, but it seems like what happens is it takes you outside of yourself for a little bit while also leaving you with a deeper understanding of yourself afterward. And what scientists say about it is that it opens the neuroplasticity in your brain for a period that then will close again after six months. But if you do a lot of work on yourself in that time, it can be helpful with things like substance use. I talked to someone who said he stopped using alcohol after he tried psychedelics. So I think there's real potential there.

[Hockey player] Daniel Carcillo was deeply suicidal before he found psychedelics, and he had a wife and young children and was making plans to end his life, and he had so many concussions. His best friend had recently died as a result of his concussions. And yeah, this guy had played in the NHL for a lot of years and was just known for taking so much contact. And it wasn't until he found psychedelics that he found the will to live.

JKA: Is there anything you think should be done in terms of psychedelics and sports? Is there anything you'd like to see in particular policy wise?

Yeah, I would like to see leagues doing more to research this stuff and putting their athletes who are interested in clinical trials. I think that's something that we've yet to see happen yet, at least that I know about and that I've been able to find. But you'd like to see leagues taking those steps, or at least thinking about taking those steps? I think for some leagues like the NFL, it's probably considered a non-starter, but I wish it were it that way. I wish they were providing athletes information about things that could maybe help them and saying like, Hey, do you want to participate in with this reputable university, these reputable doctors?

JKA: I don't expect the NFL to be running ceremonies.

JK: Right, exactly.  

JKA: There is a major spiritual aspect to psychedelics as well. How do you think that figures into athletes' mental health struggles?

JK: I think it's really interesting because I think when you talk about putting athletes in clinical settings for psychedelic use, it maybe unintentionally eliminates that spiritual aspect that so many of them cling to. But I think the spirituality is great because you have these athletes who are oftentimes raised from a very early age to not show any emotion, to not show any vulnerability, and there's certain forms of spirituality that are probably more acceptable than others. And I think showing that through psychedelics is probably one of the more acceptable ways of displaying vulnerability. We scoff at athletes who are super religious a lot of times, Tim Tebow, for example. So there's only certain acceptable channels to funnel your spiritual needs through, and I think psychedelics could be important in that regard. Generally what people I talk to can agree on is that it's a long past time to be looking into it and be treating it like a serious potential boon for mental health.